Afsnit 12 af NewRetirement-podcasten er et interview med Bruce Goldberg. Få det fascinerende indblik i det virkelige liv af en tidligere narkotikahåndhævelsesagent, og hør hans nyttige indsigt i, hvordan man går på tidlig pension, og hvordan hans liv er, når han går på pension.
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Steve: Velkommen til den 12. podcast for NewRetirement. I dag skal vi tale med Bruce Goldberg, en nyligt pensioneret føderal DEA, Drug Enforcement Administration, agent om hans karriereforløb, livet i udlandet, hvordan og hvorfor han valgte at gå på pension som 52-årig, og hvad det næste er. Vores podcastgæster har hidtil været emneeksperter om emner som adfærdsøkonomi, investering, arbejde med pension, personlig økonomi, pensionsindkomst fra social sikring, FIRE og formål, men vi ønskede at lære af nogle mere "almindelige" mennesker, som går på pension eller er engageret i livsstilsdesign.
Bruce, velkommen til vores show. Tak, fordi du sluttede dig til os.
Bruce: Tak skal du have. Godt at være her.
Steve: Ja, jeg sætter pris på, at du tager dig tid. Jeg ville gerne begynde at lære lidt mere om din baggrund. Du har haft en ret interessant og anderledes karriere i forhold til de fleste mennesker. Hvad fik dig til at komme ind i DEA?
Bruce: Tja, jeg havde altid ønsket at være politibetjent, lige siden jeg var et lille barn. Jeg mener, det er enten politibetjenten eller skraldebilschaufføren, ikke? Til sidst indser man, at skraldebilen lugter, og man vil hellere være politibetjent, så jeg havde i alle mine opvækstår været gearet til at blive fascineret af, hvad politiet laver og samfundstjenesten og formålet med det.
Da jeg gik på college, tog min ældre bror, som var kemiker af fag, i praktik hos DEA. Gennem ham mødte jeg nogle af agenterne, da jeg skulle ud at besøge min bror. Det var den første, jeg havde lært om DEA, og jeg sagde:"Wow! Det virker som et rigtig fedt job.” Mens jeg var sidste semester på college, søgte jeg hos DEA såvel som andre retshåndhævende myndigheder, fordi jeg var færdiguddannet og søgte et job, ligesom alle unge mennesker. Da jeg kom igennem ansættelsesprocessen til alle de forskellige jobs, var DEA faktisk de første, der ringede og tilbød mig en stilling.
Steve: Det er interessant. Hvad studerede du på college?
Bruce: Strafferetspleje.
Steve: Okay, så du havde baggrunden. Hvilken slags mennesker så du slutte sig til DEA? Var det meget militær eller er det alle slags mennesker?
Bruce: Nu ser vi en masse militær og tidligere lokal retshåndhævelse. Kravene kræver nu to års en eller anden form for professionel efterforskningserfaring. Vi ser en masse militær, en masse lokal retshåndhævelse, ikke så mange mennesker lige ud af college længere.
Steve: Huh, interessant. Jeg vil stille dig et tilfældigt spørgsmål. Jeg har lige set Sicario. Er det overhovedet realistisk? Er den slags film overhovedet realistiske, eller er det bare helt opfundet?
Bruce: Nej det er ikke. Med den 24-timers nyhedscyklus og sociale medier, og alle har et kamera på deres telefoner, den type ting, du ser i nogle af disse film, hvis det virkelig foregik, ville du høre om disse militærkonvojer, der krydser grænsen og jagter skurke og gør alle disse hemmelige egern-ting. Selvom disse typer hemmelige aktiviteter findes, er de mange gange ikke så actionfyldte.
Steve: Forstået. Forstået. Da du først blev medlem af DEA, hvad var det første, du lavede der?
Bruce: Nå, da jeg kom til DEA, var jeg 23 år gammel, så jeg var meget yngre end gennemsnitsalderen for dem, der kom på jobbet, som var omkring 29 år. Som ung fyr var der mange ting, jeg skulle gøre, hvad angår modenhed, for at lære at være professionel og opføre mig i stresssituationer og ting, der virkelig påvirkede resultaterne af folks liv.
Jeg mener, at sætte nogen, der sidder i fængsel og nægter dem deres frihed, er en meget vigtig autoritet, og du skal tage det alvorligt. Tidligt i min karriere var meget af det arbejde, jeg lavede, virkelig at støtte undersøgelserne af de mere ledende agenter på kontoret, men der var et par muligheder for mig at arbejde undercover på grund af min unge alder. Jeg blandede mig bedre med noget af det unge kriminelle element på grund af min udseende og min alder.
Steve: Forstået. Kan du dele lidt om nogle af … Havde du nogle topoplevelser omkring at gøre det? Jeg tror, da vi talte sammen tidligere, du nævnte, at du arbejdede i San Diego og nogle af de ting, der foregik dernede.
Bruce: Ret. Min første opgave var i San Diego, Californien. Det var der, jeg hyrede videre. På det tidspunkt havde bureauet ikke penge til at overføre alle disse indkommende agenter til nye opgaver, så i stedet for at betale for at flytte dem over hele landet, sendte de os bare tilbage, hvor vi hyrede fra, hvilket for mig var fantastisk, fordi San Diego er smuk, og jeg havde familie der.
Min første undercover-aktivitet, omkring tre, fire måneder på jobbet, skulle jeg købe LSD på Pacific Beach, lige på den anden side af gaden fra hvor rutsjebanen er, den historiske rutsjebane. Det var en Jack in the Box-restaurant på det tidspunkt, nu … jeg bestod den for en måned siden. Nu er det en Starbucks. Gå figur. Jeg blev introduceret gennem en fortrolig kilde, som var blevet arresteret og ønskede at samarbejde med retshåndhævelsen. I slutningen af dagen samarbejder alle med retshåndhævelsen. Det gør de alle sammen. Uanset sangene og hvad de fortæller dig, er der ingen, der ønsker at komme i fængsel for deres fulde eksponering. De er villige til at samarbejde.
Denne unge mand, som blev arresteret, tog mig med og præsenterede mig for, hvem han købte LSD af. Jeg forhandlede med dem om et stort køb af LSD, som på det tidspunkt var et stort køb. Det var omkring $1500 værd LSD-faner på blotter-papir. Jeg var iført et par shorts og en tanktop og flip flops. Jeg mødte dem ved Jack in the Box, og vi forhandlede. En uge senere bragte jeg pengene, og de bragte stofferne. Da det var tid til at arrestere dem, brød helvede løs.
Det er en fantastisk historie. Mit coverteam, de agenter, der dækkede mig og skulle komme ind, da jeg gav det forudaftalte signal om at arrestere, var meget ældre end jeg. De fyre, jeg forhandlede med, var på min alder, unge 20'ere, og så da jeg gav signalet om at anholde, og de begyndte at komme ind og foretage anholdelsen, de unge fyre, jeg forhandlede med, og der var fire af dem til sidst, så politiet komme og løb væk til fods, og jagten var i gang.
Jeg ønskede ikke at holde mig uden for handlingen, så jeg gik hurtigt hen til min bil, greb min pistol og jagtede den nærmeste fyr, jeg kunne. Jeg fangede ham, og vi sloges lidt i gyden. Da alt dette foregik, blev det lokale politi underrettet om en igangværende narkobust og mistænkte til fods og flygtede fra arrestationen, mens jeg slås med denne fyr i gyden. Jeg fik overtaget, og jeg står over ham nu, og min pistol pegede på ham. Jeg har ingen håndjern på mig. En politibil kører ind i gyden, og de to politibetjente ser bare mig.
Steve: Okay, dine klipklapper og tanktop.
Bruce: Intet ved, at jeg er en politibetjent, der står over denne fyr med en pistol i mine hænder. De stiger ud af bilen, og de begynder at pege med våben mod mig. Det var meget interessant, dog ikke første gang, at jeg har fået lokalt politi til at rette våben mod mig. Det er en del af læringsprocessen for-
Steve: Ret. Træner de dig i, hvordan du håndterer den situation, hvis du er undercover, som hvordan du forhandler med en anden politistyrke i øjeblikket?
Bruce: Nå, i det tilfælde, når du har bevæbnede politibetjente, der peger deres våben mod dig, er det en situation med høj stress. Den eneste ting at gøre er egentlig bare at gøre, hvad de fortæller dig at gøre, ikke? Jeg lagde mit våben ned i tilstrækkelig afstand fra den onde fyr, som jeg stod over, og fulgte deres kommandoer, indtil de fuldt ud var i stand til at forstå, at jeg var den gode fyr. Det giver en fantastisk historie, men på det tidspunkt skræmte det mig ad helvede til, ikke?
Steve: Ja, ja, i øjeblikket er du nødt til at sige:"Jeg er faktisk også i retshåndhævelsen. Skyd mig ikke.”
Bruce: Skyd mig ikke!
Steve: Jeg spekulerer på, om de slemme fyre satte det ud. Ja, jeg mener, de taler om folk i militæret og i retshåndhævelsen, at der er meget mere stress, som de mennesker går under og faktisk resulterer i lavere forventet levetid. Taler I om det inde i jeres besætning?
Bruce: Det gør vi. Jeg kunne ikke give dig de nøjagtige tal, men antallet af skilsmisser blandt folk i retshåndhævelse er højere end gennemsnittet. Selvmordsraterne er højere end gennemsnittet. Det er noget, som mange af os har i baghovedet.
Når du er ung, og du vil være involveret i retshåndhævelse, er den slags ting og tanker om pension ikke i nærheden af dine rammer. sind. Du er bare glad for at få jobbet. Efterhånden som du kommer videre i årene, begynder disse ting at spille ind.
Steve: Okay, ja, nej, det er interessant. Jeg mener, jeg havde tænkt mig at dele en hurtig historie, der gjorde den virkelig for mig, fordi jeg tror, at mange mennesker, som ikke er tidligere militære eller retshåndhævende myndigheder, ikke har beskæftiget sig med dette, ikke er klar over former for stress, som du ikke nødvendigvis løber ind i, men som kan komme op. Min kones fætter er i Sheriff's Department i San Diego, og vi var til Thanksgiving engang, og han fortalte mig historien, hvor han var ligesom, "Ja."
Som en yngre fyr var han på motorcykeltjeneste , og der kom et opkald om et røveri, et væbnet røveri, i et hus. Fyren var til fods, og det var tre miles væk, og så de skulle holde øjnene åbne. Han forventede ikke at se denne fyr, men så så han en, der lignede ham, gå ned ad gaden, så han snurrede rundt og fulgte denne fyr.
Fyren lettede og løb gennem nogle baggårde. Han måtte hoppe af sin motorcykel, så han forsøger at ringe efter backup, men de er ikke tæt på. Han kører ham ned, tackler fyren, og de slås. Han er gået fra normal hverdag til, nu er han i en kamp for sit liv med denne fyr i baghaven. Han fortalte, at det grundlæggende var klart, at han skulle bruge yderligere magt for at stoppe fyren, så han trækker sin pistol frem, og nu kæmper de om hans pistol. Jeg ved ikke. På en eller anden måde blev pistolen introduceret, og nu kæmper de om pistolen, og så han sagde:"Okay, jeg bliver nødt til at skyde denne person." Han er lige ved siden af ham, ikke? De kæmper.
Han satte pistolen ind i fyren og trykker på aftrækkeren, men på grund af den måde, pistolen er designet på, vil den faktisk ikke affyre, hvis enden af pistolen trykkes ind, af en eller anden grund , med denne pistol, så den skød ikke. Så fortsatte kampen, og hans backup dukkede op, og de anholdt fyren. Nu, set i bakspejlet, er han meget gladere over, at "Hey, jeg skød ikke nogen på skarp afstand og dræbte ham lige foran mig." Det er noget, han var nødt til at forholde sig til, og du hører den historie, og du tænker, "Det er vanvittigt."
Bruce: Det er noget vi alle tænker over, ikke? Jeg mener, det er en hård ting at leve med, når man tager et andet menneskes liv. Det er noget, vi alle frygter den dag. Jeg har været i den situation et par gange, og heldigvis, heldigvis, har jeg faktisk aldrig været nødt til at skyde nogen. Jeg er kommet helt tæt på, og jeg har været i situationer, hvor der er blevet affyret skud. Det er et rigtigt wake up call. Jeg mener, når du er færdig, og adrenalinen nu har forladt din krop, og du er forbi det øjeblik i tiden, må du virkelig affinde dig med det. Du vil gerne tro, du er uovervindelig, og den slags ting kommer ikke til at ske for mig, men det gør det, ved du?
Steve: Ja.
Bruce: Det gør den.
Steve: Træner de dig overhovedet i, hvordan du forbereder dig på den situation, eller er det-
Bruce: På en måde, ja. Jeg mener, de giver dig scenarier. Vi var så heldige at have tid med andre agenter, som havde været i de situationer, enten som var blevet skudt eller har været nødt til at skyde nogen, men indtil du rent faktisk er i det, indtil du faktisk selv har oplevet det, ved jeg Jeg ved ikke, hvor godt du egentlig kan være forberedt på det. Nu, heldigvis, tilbyder regeringen, DEA og andre agenturer … I mit agentur hedder det Employee Assistance Program eller EAP. De stiller mentale sundhedstjenester og lignende til rådighed for dig, når du har de situationer.
Et af de skyderier, jeg var med i, er en obligatorisk del af protokollen efter skyderiet, som du besøger med en kliniker til at tale igennem, hvad der skete. Det er fortroligt. Hvis klinikeren føler, at du har brug for opfølgning for at håndtere det traume, du har oplevet, så har du det, okay? Det er ikke en omkostning for medarbejderen eller agenten. Det er bare at have den mentale sundhedsstøtte, når du har brug for det, ikke behøver at bekymre dig om hverken stigmatiseringen af at gå, fordi det er fortroligt, eller evnen til at betale for det, fordi det er givet. Jeg synes, det er fantastisk.
Steve: Wow, ja, det er fantastisk. Jeg mener, det er det, der er så anderledes ved din oplevelse i forhold til de fleste mennesker. Jeg vil gerne fortælle mere om, hvordan din karriere udviklede sig. Jeg ved, du har arbejdet i udlandet og sådan noget. Før vi går videre, andre højdepunkter fra begyndelsen af din karriere, ikke at jeg vil dykke for meget ned i Bourne Identity-tingene her, men det er interessant at høre dette.
Bruce: Som enhver organisation bliver det bureaukratisk på et tidspunkt. Når du er ung, og du lige er startet med DEA, bliver du tildelt en gruppe, et hold, et hold, uanset hvordan du vil henvise til det. Der er normalt 8 til 10 af dig og supervisoren. Virkelig, hele jeres verden fokuserer på den gruppe og de undersøgelser, den gruppe laver, så al politik og bureaukratiet i agenturet er ikke involveret. Det er en vidunderlig tid i din karriere. Man kan være naiv over for al den politik og bureaukrati, der foregår, men de første 10 år på jobbet var nok de bedste for mig, for det var bare ren kriminalitetsbekæmpelse og at være ude på gaden hver dag og støtte sine holdkammerater og putte skurke i fængsel og alle de ting, du har tilmeldt dig.
Steve: Jeg ved, at du var en atlet i gymnasiet og også på college?
Bruce: Jeg gik på en afdeling I-skole. Jeg spillede ikke fodbold på college. Jeg gik efter college. Jeg spillede to års fodbold i en velgørenhedsliga for retshåndhævelse. Vi spillede med andre politi- og brandvæsener rundt omkring i USA for velgørenhed, men det var fuld kontakt college regler fodbold.
Steve: Jeg tror, du nævnte før, noget af din tacklingserfaring kom til nytte i et par ting. Du var den udpegede løber eller sådan noget.
Bruce: Nemlig. At være den unge fyr og være i god form, og jeg kan godt lide at dyrke meget sport og holde min fysiske kondition oppe, så arbejder i grupper med ældre fyre, når vi ville gøre disse, hvad vi kalder købe buste situationer, hvor vi ville kulminere en sag med en skurk, der bringer os stoffer eller kemikalier eller hvad det nu måtte være, og vi kommer faktisk til at arrestere dem den dag, de fleste fyre er klædt i tunge taktiske veste, støvler. De har en masse udstyr på bæltet, håndjern og batoner og din pistol og ekstra magasiner og radioen. De valgte en eller to fyre til at være i en letvægtsvest, løbesko og meget begrænset udstyr på deres bælter, for hvis fyrene løb væk til fods, måtte nogen gå efter dem. Jeg var den fyr i en årrække.
Steve: Pæn. Nå, jeg er glad for, at du fik brugt dine atletiske ting godt. Derefter ved jeg, at du arbejdede med at træne i San Francisco Field Division og derefter i Washington, og så arbejdede du i udlandet. Kan du give os et hurtigt overblik over, hvordan din karriere udviklede sig, og jeg vil tale lidt mere med dig om det? Jeg er især interesseret i nogle af de ting, du lavede i udlandet, og hvordan den oplevelse var.
Bruce: Jo da. Jeg startede min karriere i San Diego. Jeg tilbragte mine første otte et halvt år i San Diego. I San Diego County, i slutningen af 80'erne og begyndelsen af 90'erne, var meget af det, vi beskæftigede os med, sager af metamfetamin-typen og metamfetaminlaboratorier, meget giftigt, meget farligt, der krævede et helt andet sæt færdigheder i, hvordan man bærer personlige værnemidler, luft åndedrætsværn, og kender farerne ved nogle af disse kemikalier, du havde med at gøre.
Mange af mine undersøgelser, tidligt, var disse sager af typen meth lab. Jeg udviklede en ekspertise i at behandle disse laboratorier og sikre, at vi var sikre ved at gøre det. En masse politi bliver undervist i, hvordan man skyder og hvordan man skriver rapporter, og hvordan man interviewer folk, men når det kommer til disse typer undersøgelser med laboratorier, er det ukendt at kende kogepunktet for et bestemt kemikalie eller afgangsgaspunktet. .
Steve: Ikke sandt, fordi du læser om disse huse, der sprænger i luften, ikke?
Bruce: Præcis, præcis, og det forurener vandvejene. Det forurener jorden. Det er rigtig slemt. Jeg brugte meget tid på at arbejde på disse meth-laboratorier, og efter otte et halvt år havde jeg forfulgt en stilling, blev bedt om faktisk at søge en stilling på vores kontor for uddannelse, for at hjælpe med at undervise i det grundlæggende klanlaboratoriekursus, som vi underviste til andre agenter, lokalt politi, endda politi i andre lande.
Jeg accepterede den stilling, og jeg tilbragte to år på vores træningskontor i Quantico, Virginia. Det er på Quantico Marine Base, lige ved siden af FBI Academy. Jeg hjalp med at undervise i det klanlabkursus. Det gjorde jeg i omkring to år og fik lyst til at ville tilbage til håndhævelse.
Jeg søgte en stilling i San Francisco som supervisor. Jeg blev accepteret til den stilling. Jeg kom til San Francisco for første gang i 2000. Jeg tilbragte et år med at lede San Francisco Airport Task Force, arbejde med San Francisco Police, San Mateo County Sheriff's Department, og havde en fantastisk tid.
Steve: Går der mange stoffer gennem SFO?
Bruce: Fantastisk.
Steve: Virkelig?
Bruce: Enorme mængder af stoffer. Nu, og jeg vil sige, lige siden 9/11, har der ikke været så meget stoffer i kroppen på grund af alle de forbedrede sikkerhedsforanstaltninger, men vi ser en masse penge, der kommer tilbage til San Francisco. Dette er penge, der kommer tilbage, overskud bliver returneret til Californien for salg af højkvalitets californisk marihuana, der distribueres i andre dele af USA, hvilket også er ulovligt i henhold til californisk lov. Vi beslaglægger millioner og atter millioner af dollars hvert år af penge, der kommer tilbage til Californien –
Steve: Folk bringer bare disse penge ind, i deres bagage og sådan noget?
Bruce: Ja, $20.000, $100.000, $200.000 i kontanter i deres håndbagage eller deres indtjekkede bagage. Det er utroligt.
Steve: Hvordan identificerer du disse mennesker? Er der et mønster?
Bruce: Der er en proces.
Steve: Ja.
Bruce: Der er en proces. Mange gange, bare ved at se folk købe en billet i sidste øjeblik, potentielt betale kontant, have en hurtig behandling, næsten ingen indtjekkede tasker og deres komme til San Francisco, ikke? Du tror, du kommer på ferie. Du bliver et stykke tid. Du gør dette eller hint. Når du taler med nogle af disse mennesker, har de ikke en hotelreservation. De kan ikke identificere den person, der kommer for at hente dem, mange af disse ukendte ting, hvilket indikerer, at de sandsynligvis ikke er i gang.
Steve: Kommer disse folk fra over ... De kommer herhjemme, men også-
Bruce: Ja, de kommer herhjemme.
Steve: Indenlands?
Bruce: Mm-hmm (bekræftende).
Steve: Okay.
Bruce: Marihuanaen forlader Californien i pakker og lastbiler og bagagerum, og you name it, og så bliver pengene fløjet ind igen. Efter et år med det, flyttede jeg op til byen, og jeg brugte to år på at overvåge San Franciscos Metropolitan Task Force, igen med andre retshåndhævende myndigheder, der arbejder sammen for et fælles mål. Vi brugte meget af vores tid på at arbejde på storstilet mexicanske narkosmuglere, der bragte heroin ind i USA.
Så, efter tre år der i San Francisco, var jeg nødt til at rotere mit hovedkvarter, tage tilbage til Virginia, som alle første linje vejledere skal gøre. Jeg tilbragte to år på vores kontor for inspektioner, hvilket betyder, at vi lavede administrative inspektioner af alle vores kontorer rundt om i verden og lavede de ikke-kriminelle skudundersøgelser, så vi skød efterforskning fra et politisk synspunkt. Hvis der var uagtsomhed involveret, ville det blive henvist til vores afdeling for interne anliggender eller det, vi kalder vores Kontor for Professionelt Ansvar.
Mens jeg var der i Inspektionskontoret, søgte jeg min første oversøiske stilling, som jeg fik accepteret til. Jeg havde faktisk søgt mange stillinger. Det er svært. Vi har lidt mindre end 5000 agenter, og kun 400 af dem er placeret uden for USA. Nogle af disse lande … Det er ret fedt at blive udvalgt til at arbejde i udlandet.
Jeg blev udvalgt til at være landeattache for vores kontor i Quito, Ecuador. Ecuador er et smukt land. Jeg havde nogle fantastiske oplevelser der. Jeg mødte nogle vidunderlige mennesker, lavede nogle fantastiske undersøgelser. Ecuadors eneste undergang er geografi. Det er placeret lige mellem Colombia og Peru, de to verdens største producenter af kokain i verden. Geografi gør det meget vanskeligt for den ecuadorianske regering at håndtere al denne kokain, der flytter over land ind i deres land og derefter forlader via fly, containerlast, fiskefartøjer, halvt nedsænkelige ubåde.
Steve: Wow. Samarbejder regeringerne generelt? Fordi du hører blandede beskeder, åh nogle gange, måske.
Bruce: Mens et land … mine sidste fem år i Ecuador … var jeg der seks år og otte måneder. Mine sidste fem år blev regeringen ledet af en venstreorienteret præsident, Rafael Correa. Selvom Rafael Correa ikke var enig i den amerikanske regerings politik, havde vi en fælles kamp. Vi havde en fælles sag inden for narkohandel, og i det omfang det var muligt, havde jeg gode samarbejdsrelationer med mine ecuadorianske nationale politikolleger, det ecuadorianske militær og medlemmer af regeringen. Jeg mener, de kunne ikke lide de narkotikaproblemer, der opstod i deres land, mere end vi gjorde, og så fra et retshåndhævende synspunkt fandt vi fælles fodslag. Uanset om deres regering var uenig i nogle af vores politikker, arbejdede vi meget godt sammen.
Steve: Ret. Det er så stort et marked, og der flyder så mange penge igennem det, du altid … Jeg vil tro, at mange mennesker i alle, USA eller internationalt, kan blive påvirket af disse penge.
Bruce: Åh, ja.
Steve: Så du det?
Bruce: En masse korruption, uden tvivl. Der er meget korruption. Nogle af de ting, vi som DEA-agenter gør for at blive ansat, en baggrundsundersøgelse, en polygrafeksamen, vi også her i landet beskæftiger os med bekymringerne om korruption. Selvom jeg vil sige, at i Ecuador og Peru og Colombia og steder, hvor jeg har været, er der korruption, jeg tror, i større målestok end hvad vi ser i USA, men vi er ikke immune over for det, hverken på nogen måde eller betyder.
Efter Ecuador kom jeg tilbage til San Francisco. Jeg kom tilbage til San Francisco og blev assisterende specialagent i juli 2012. Jeg blev her i tre et halvt år, og jeg ledede en række forskellige operationer eller kontorer, vores kontor i San Jose, vores kontor i Oakland, nogle af vores administrative funktioner, vores efterretningsfunktioner. Jeg var ikke længere i en håndhævelsesrolle, så nu er jeg med i politikken, ikke?
Steve: Ledelse.
Bruce: Ja, jeg er i ledelsen. Det gjorde jeg i tre et halvt år og fik derefter mulighed for at søge en stilling i Peru. Jeg havde en vidunderlig oplevelse i Ecuador. Jeg så frem til muligheden for at tage tilbage til udlandet, og tog til Peru i januar 2016, og omkring halvandet år inde i det besluttede jeg, at jeg havde toppet min sjove meter. Jeg havde 28 år, eller fem uger mangel på 28 års tjeneste, og det var på tide, ikke? Heldigvis havde min kone og jeg beholdt vores hus, som vi ejede her i smukke Mill Valley, og det var lige tid til at komme hjem.
Steve: Huh, så havde du planlagt det på forhånd, eller du nåede et punkt i din karriere, og du kiggede dig omkring og sagde-
Bruce: Jeg troede, jeg ville være i Peru tre år. Jeg troede, jeg ville lave en hel rundvisning. Omkring seks til ni måneder inde indså jeg, at jeg var klar til at komme videre. Jeg havde været der omkring fire måneder, og jeg var fungerende regionsdirektør. Der var ikke en regionsdirektør på plads. Regionsdirektøren, som udvalgte mig, før jeg gik ned, havde fået en forfremmelse og gik til D.C., så da jeg ankom, var jeg chef midlertidigt.
Da den nye chef blev valgt og mødte op, var det tydeligt, at han ville have sin egen person, og til en vis grad tror jeg, han følte sig meget usikker på, at her var en, der havde ledet kontoret i fire måneder, havde fået tillid fra en række af medarbejderne og var lidt usikker på faktum, at jeg nok vidste mere, end han gjorde. Det var ikke et godt forhold fra begyndelsen, og jeg vidste, at det var på tide. Efter omkring seks til ni måneder inde begyndte min kone og jeg virkelig at diskutere og gennemgå tallene for at se, om det var muligt, at jeg kunne gå på pension i en alder af 51. Jeg er 52 nu, men det var 10 måneder siden.
Steve: Ja, det virker så ungt.
Bruce: Det er uden tvivl ungt.
Steve: Ja, rigtigt, og jeg tror du kom til den konklusion. Jeg mener, det er interessant at høre dette. Det hører jeg fra flere og flere af mine venner, hvor det samme sker i den private sektor. Du er i én situation, og så kommer der en anden ind, og de vil typisk gerne gøre rent og have deres eget team.
Bruce: Det kan jeg godt forstå, til en vis respekt. Jeg mener, jeg var der for at udføre et arbejde. Jeg var der for at støtte missionen, og jeg kunne gøre det for enhver. Hvis jeg troede, at den person havde integriteten og midlerne til at tillade mig at udføre mit arbejde, kunne tingene have været anderledes, men det er okay. Jeg var rykket op til det niveau. Jeg var gået ind i den verden. Ved andre lejligheder har politikken og bureaukratiet om, hvem du kender, favoriseret mig, ikke? Jeg forstår det, okay?
Nu er fordelen, at jeg havde haft næsten 28 års tjeneste. For mig, som en føderal retshåndhæver, kunne jeg gå på pension efter 20 års tjeneste, hvis jeg var mindst 50 år eller 25 år i tjeneste og enhver alder. Jeg nåede 25 års tjeneste, da jeg var 48, fordi jeg var startet så ung, så jeg havde den mulighed, okay? Jeg havde den mulighed.
Steve: Ja, det er en fantastisk mulighed at have. Jeg synes dog, det er interessant, at for mange mennesker mener jeg generelt, at folk tror, at de kommer til at arbejde indtil deres 60'ere, men den gennemsnitlige pensionsalder er omkring 57. Uanset årsagen, over hele linjen, offentlige eller private, ender folk med at forlade deres traditionelle karrierer tidligere, og mange år tidligere, end de oprindeligt havde planlagt.
Bruce: Okay, og jeg har trukket mig tilbage fra min karriere, og jeg kan godt lide at sige, at jeg er gået på pension. Jeg er ikke holdt op med at arbejde, men jeg har trukket mig tilbage fra mit karrierejob. De ting, jeg gør nu, på deltid eller på frivillig basis, er ting, der holder mig engageret, holder mig på en eller anden form for en plan, en eller anden form for tidsplan. Det skal du have, ikke? Jeg ved, at vi vil gå ind i det og tale om det, men i en alder af 52 år er jeg ung, ikke? Det er ikke tiden bare til at stoppe med at gøre alt.
Når du tænker på, at jeg går på pension, og det er som om, okay, det første, jeg gør, når jeg kommer tilbage til USA, er at bestille, at La-Z -Drengestol … Nå, nej, den er ikke i huset, vel? Det er ikke planen.
Steve: Ja, så du har nået dette punkt, hvor du grundlæggende var økonomisk uafhængig. Du kan gøre, hvad du vil. Jeg mener, skal du overhovedet arbejde?
Bruce: Nej jeg gør. Jeg mener, hvis jeg boede i andre dele af landet, sandsynligvis ikke. Jeg mener, men vi bor i en meget dyr by, okay? Mill Valley, Californien, er et af de dyreste steder i USA at bo, uanset om det er fast ejendom, gasprisen, you name it. Jeg tror på "du får, hvad du betaler for." Det er en smuk dag ude i dag. Der er næsten ingen fugt. Vi har ikke mange fejl. Stranden kunne jeg gå til. Jeg kunne være i bjergene på mindre end tre timer, smukke byer, smukke restauranter i byen 10 minutter væk, og en stor international lufthavn tæt på. Jeg mener, vi har alt, hvad vi har brug for her.
Steve: Du kunne gå ind i fast ejendom.
Bruce: Ja, skal jeg så fortsætte med at arbejde? Ja. Skal jeg arbejde fuld tid? Nej. Jeg vil have det til at fungere. Vi elsker det her. Jeg har stadig to børn i skole her. Jeg synes, det er et godt sted at vokse op, og vi er helt sikkert blevet en del af fællesskabet, enten gennem skolen og mødet med mennesker, der har børn på samme alder, eller bare nogle af de ting, jeg har lavet i amtet eller i byen for at støtte mit samfund. Mine børn tilbragte nogle af deres tidligere dage her. De spillede baseball og fodbold og fodbold, og så bliver du en del af dette fællesskab, ikke?
Steve: Ja, jeg synes, at fællesskabet er super vigtigt, og … når folk tænker over, hvad de skal gøre næste gang, og hvordan deres liv vil være, at vælge et sted eller tænke over, hvor de skal bo, om det er i udlandet eller hvis det er indenlandsk, og hvilken slags by. Jeg tror, vi ser mange mennesker-
Bruce: Right, because I could be financially independent, if I moved to a less expensive state, but it’s starting over, all over again, in your community, who you know, who you socialize with, what you’re going to do.
Steve: Mechanically, what you have going in your favor is you’ve got this long career, I’m assuming a pension.
Bruce: Yes.
Steve: Did you start your pension or not? You can just-
Bruce: I have. It’s automatic-
Steve: When you retire.
Bruce: When I retire. Now, our retirement system is broken up into three parts. There’s a traditional pension, which is a percentage of your salary, based on your last highest three years, or highest 36 continuous months of salary, and the number of years in service. Mine worked out to be 41% of my base salary. That’s my traditional pension.
Steve: Okay, and does that adjust for inflation, over time?
Bruce: It does.
Steve: Nice.
Bruce: It does.
Steve: Okay.
Bruce: Secondly, we have what’s called the Thrift Savings Plan, which is basically the government’s version of a 401(k). I’d been contributing into it, since I was on the job at the one-year mark. Back then, you had to wait a year, and then you could start contributing to it. The government matches a certain percentage, up to 5%. There’s a cap, just like the 401(k), of how much you can contribute each year.
I was contributing the maximum amount each year. I think the year I retired, the maximum contribution was $18,500, so automatically through my years of service, I was contributing at least 10% to my retirement, if not a little more.
Steve: Good job, because the recommendation is to save 10% to 15% of your salary.
Bruce: Right, exactly.
Steve: Plus you have the pension on top of that. How can you … What kind of choices do you have for investing that? Is it a typical set of mutual funds or funds?
Bruce: They are a set of mutual funds, and there are five or six different funds you can invest in. There’s just a regular government … There’s two funds that are secure with very remote chances of losing your principal, and then there are stock funds that have a much higher risk, right? Obviously, over time, the riskier funds can earn a higher percentage.
Steve: What was it you mentioned? There’s the pension, there’s the TSP, and what was the third leg?
Bruce: Social Security.
Steve: Social Security.
Bruce: When you’re age eligible.
Steve: Okay, so you can get Social Security, too?
Bruce: Til højre.
Steve: Because I know that some federal-
Bruce: If it’s still there, yes-
Steve: Yeah, if it’s still there.
Bruce: When I turn 70, if it’s still there.
Steve: We just put up a podcast with Mary Beth Franklin about this, and also I’m sure you’ve seen the news that it’s due to … Social Security will only be able to pay about 75% of the benefit in 2034, so it’s … Medicare’s in worse shape.
Bruce: Realistically speaking, I’ve always thought of my contributions to Social Security as a way to support my parents. I have not been fully secure in thinking that it’s going to be there for me, when I turn 67 or 70.
Steve: Yeah, I mean, personally, I think it’ll be there in some form or fashion, but they’re going to have to make adjustments, like move out the claiming dates. Today, it’s you can claim at 62 or your full retirement age, which is 66 or 67. It moves up as time goes by, or 70 is the max, but I think they’ll raise the 70. They’ll probably raise the full retirement age, and maybe they’ll raise the lower limit, too.
Bruce: If they phase that in, like if they said, for people who are under age 50, it’s going to be 63, and if it’s your under 40, it’s going to be 65. If they phased it in, I think that would be a really good approach, but it’s such a political football to say that you’re going to change Social Security. Nobody wants to be that guy.
Steve: Yeah, but they actually did it, so it’s interesting. The reason it’s moving right now from, the full retirement age, from 65 to 66 to 67, is that, I think it was 1983, they said, “Okay, in 30 years from now, we’re going to make those changes.” That’s how you have to do it. You have to look way forward, 10, 20, 30 years, and say, “This is how it’s going to go.”
Yeah, I think it’ll be there, but I know that a lot of people, especially also Millennials, they highly discount it, and so interesting. Any other … Since we’re talking about the financial side, I’m just curious about what you’re doing for health care, because so you’re young, right? You don’t get-
Bruce: I am young. No, as part of my … One of my benefits of working for the Federal Government, I get to keep my health insurance. If I had it for the last five years of my employment, I can keep my health insurance at the rate of payment, at the cost of what I was paying, when I was employed with DEA, which is amazing. That’s an amazing benefit.
Steve: What does health care cost when you work at the DEA?
Bruce: Well, with a family, so I have three children that are still under 26 on my plan, I think I am paying, personally, about $650 a month.
Steve: Wow. Det er fantastisk. That’s a huge benefit. I think one of the big things that a lot of people underestimate is that, so if you work for the Federal Government and you work for the public sector, in general, generally pay levels are lower, but the pension and healthcare benefits are so big that net/net, the aggregate total compensation over your lifetime is, in many cases, higher than you’re going to make in the private sector.
Bruce: I would hope I live that long, really. I would hope I live that long.
Steve: Yeah, the down … Yeah.
Bruce: There’s a gentleman, who lives here in Mill Valley. He’s the oldest living DEA agent. He retired in 1973. He’s 91 years old. Gud velsigne ham. He still lives by himself. He still drives. I try to see him every once in a while and take him out for lunch, and just a wonderful guy to talk to. He has been retired longer than he was an active agent. His benefits, he has … His retirement, I think, each year, is more than what he ever made in a yearly salary.
Steve: Right, because it adjusted for inflation?
Bruce: That’s right.
Steve: How did you get connected with him? Just because there’s a network of-
Bruce: There’s a network, an organization of retired agents, and they do some philanthropy work. They spend time recognizing current agents for some of their outstanding work, and they offer college scholarships and do some other charity golf tournaments to support families of fallen agents, things like that. I met him, I think, my first year here in San Francisco, in 2012, realized that we’re basically neighbors, live two miles away, as the crow flies, and that he’s on his own and by himself. I think it’s nice to pay him a visit every once in a while and share a glass of wine. He loves his wine.
He’s just a wonderful guy. He can tell you stories about, in World War II, at his age, he was drafted in the last years of the war and reported to Angel Island, was put on a ship, and spent a year as part of the U.S. Occupying Force in Japan. The war was over by the time he got finished with his basic training and stuff, but he spent a year, got on a ship right at Angel Island, sailed under the bridge, and that’s what he did. He’s just an amazing man, and it’s been wonderful to know him. We can all aspire to live as long as Bob has and have such a good life.
Steve: Well, it’s great that you’re engaging with him and finding him. I think a lot of people … There is so much knowledge and great experience in older folks that is largely untapped. This sounds like Bob has some amazing stories. I was reading … There’s a New York Times article about trying to put senior communities near child care, or put them in the same building, so that older folks can engage with the younger kids, and there’s some positive synergies there versus, I think, in our society today, in many cases, older people are warehoused. You hit a certain point, okay, you’re less useful, and into the old folks’ home, and then you’re irrelevant, and it’s very disengaging for the folks and actually super unhealthy for them, too, because they’re isolated there. It’s cool that you’re engaging with him and learning from him.
All right, so before we move on from the financial stuff, any … With your TSP, do you manage it yourself or did you roll it in … Can you roll it into a rollover or something like that?
Bruce: I can leave it under the Government’s TSP plan for as long as I want to. The fees are very small, and I can leave it there untouched until I’m 70 years old, and then have to do some type of withdrawal, just like your 401(k)s. The fund seems to be managed very well. There’s no reason not to … to move it at this point.
Now, this current, the current, Administration is making some changes to the TSP that will make it more user-friendly for retirees to not have to be locked into either an annuity or only so many withdrawals a year. They’re going to make that more flexible, which I think is great, because people sometimes have unexpected expenses, whether they’re medical expenses, or they want to take that trip of a lifetime, while they’re still able to. The fund is going to become more flexible, which I think is good.
Steve: Got it, so just to recap then. You’re getting your pension. You’re keeping your money in your TSP. You’ve got health care at a relatively low cost. You’re working part-time. In the future, you’ll claim Social Security. How are you going to claim Social Security? Have you thought about that, like at what age?
Bruce: I will try to push it off as late as possible. As I understand it, if you wait until 70 years old, your monthly benefit will be higher than if you took it earlier, so if I don’t need to use it before 70, I don’t intend to.
Steve: Yeah, basically the rule of thumb is if you’re married, the highest earning spouse should delay as long as possible, ideally until 70, and the reason is that a surviving spouse will get a higher benefit. It’s really better to think about it like, oh, okay, will this make a huge lifestyle difference, if you passed away first, for my wife in her last 10 years of life, at 90 years old. The answer is, in many cases, yes. That’s why it’s a good way to think about it that way.
Okay, so that … I appreciate all the insight about and openness about how you’re doing your retirement financial stuff. Moving on to what your life is like these days and how you look at it, so you’ve gone from 28 years, one career, I mean, pretty interesting career arc. Now you’re relatively financially independent, and you can do whatever you want. How do you choose what to do?
Bruce: Well, there’s been a lot of things to choose from. I will tell you. Before I got hired with DEA, I mean, it was the only real job I ever had. I made pizzas in college, worked at a kosher style deli, and that was really about it, so from a professional standpoint, that was it. When I decided I was going to retire, just putting together a resume and learning how to network and do all those things that you really need to do were all new to a guy 51 years old.
I was able to navigate that fairly well. I got some help making a resume from a professional, a service that I paid for, which I think definitely paid for itself. When I came back, there were a lot of different opportunities, some things I really wanted to do, that I still hope may come to fruition.
I enjoyed teaching when I was working at our academy, and I taught police officers from all around the world and traveled to a number of countries to do it. I thought that was great, and I’d really like to do that again. That hasn’t come to fruition, but I wanted to stay engaged with my expertise, things I had done.
One of the first things I started to do when I came back, that I’d loved doing part-time when I was employed, was coaching. I have two boys at Tam High School on the football team. I had asked if they needed any more assistant coaches, and they welcomed me with open arms. I used to help coach with Pop Warner, the Southern Marin Broncos here in town, when my boys played.
The day I got off the airplane, my first day of being a retired guy, I was on the football field, and between helping with the high school and helping with the Southern Marin Broncos/Pop Warner, I was working seven days a week coaching football. It was Monday through Friday of practice. The high school had games on Saturday, the Pop Warner kids had games on Sundays. I’m like, “Wow.” I realized that you need to do something. You need to have a plan to stay engaged, to find a purpose, to want to be active, right?
Football was that way for me to get started with a schedule. I had to be somewhere at a certain time each day. I had a plan, right? After doing that for four months, I’d been networking in some other fields. I took on some consulting work, doing due diligence audits of pharmacies, which was kind of in my stream of consciousness and my experience with my familiarity with toxicologies in medications and prescription medications that are causing a huge issue in the United States right now.
I was doing that as a consultant and learning how to be in business for myself, as a sole proprietor, and very flexible. I realized that I really liked the flexibility. Then, one day, I’m dropping my son off at the Mill Valley Community Center. I’d done some community work for them, the Mill Valley Aware Drug and Alcohol Task Force is run by the Recreation Department.
I’m dropping my older son off at the Rec Center, and there’s a big sign on the marquee about part-time jobs, flexible hours, and free gym membership. I’m like, “That’s me,” right? “That’s great!” I’d emailed the director, who I had known for a number of years, and I said, “Hey, what do you got?” I looked on the website, and I found a position as a field monitor, which basically makes sure that the fields, when they’re not supposed to be in use, they’re not being torn up by some guy out there with his golf clubs, or they rent out certain spaces in Old Mill Park and other areas, and you want to make sure they’re clean and good to go, and people are using them appropriately. During baseball season, you want to make sure the parents aren’t setting up the full bar in the stands while they watch their seven-year-old play Tee Ball, so things like that. I’m like, “I can do that.”
Of course, the free gym membership is great, so I started working for the Recreation Department. It’s part-time and 8, 10, 15 hours a week, very flexible. My commute is all of two and a half miles. They’re a great group of people to work with. Most of them are much younger than I, but they serve a great need in the community. They do such fantastic things with swim lessons and programs for the elderly. I really like that sense of being a part of my community.
Steve: That’s interesting. It sounds like you retired. You didn’t have a complete perfect plan about exactly what you were going to do, but you knew you were going to do something engaging. You found … You did football coaching. You’re doing this stuff in the community with the fields. You seem happy. Are you pretty happy doing that?
Bruce: Jeg er. I still do … When I was here as the Assistant Special Agent in Charge, I was doing some public speaking at schools, community groups, and now that I’m retired, I’ve been asked to continue to be a part of that. The County of Marin has their RxSafe Marin program, which is trying to lower the misuse and abuse of prescription medications. I was there with them when it started in 2014. I’m still a part of it.
The Marin County Office of Education holds a school/law enforcement partnership meeting five times during the school year, where they bring together vice principals or principals from the different high schools and middle schools, as well as the school resource officers that cover those schools, together, and they talk about issues of concern. When I was still with DEA, I did a couple of presentations with them on different types of drugs, for their knowledge and awareness. I was asked to continue to attend those meetings, which I enjoy doing.
I still, since my retirement, I’ve done presentations for Redwood High School’s PTSA. I’ve done a couple of presentations at Drake High School. I’ve done some at Tam, whether it’s their Spanish class or their street law classes. I love still doing that. Tonight, I’m actually giving a presentation at the Elks’ Lodge in San Rafael. I don’t charge for that. I don’t want to charge for that. I just like doing it. If I can educate some parents about the realities of what’s out there, that their kids may be exposed to, because a lot of times, I’ll do these presentations, and the parents … Their first response is, “I had no idea that was a thing.”
Steve: Right.
Bruce: “I had no idea that was available to my kids.”
Steve: As a parent, yourself, does it scare you?
Bruce: Oh, it scares the hell out of me.
Steve: What do you find the most scary?
Bruce: There’s so much misinformation out there. The kids are learning about drugs from other kids or from the Internet. Not everything you read on the Internet is correct, and so I don’t think they fully understand how bad some of these things are. With the legalization of marijuana, and that’s a whole separate discussion, but with respect to young adults and teens, whose brain development can be affected by any number of these substances, which will never-
Steve: They can’t get back.
Bruce: Change back, right?
Steve: Yeah.
Bruce: It scares the hell out of me. Now, my kids, seeing me come home from work sometimes kind of bloodied and beat up, and having to take all my protective equipment off in the garage and throw it right in the washing machine or whatever, I think they fully grasp it. I think they fully get it, but there’s still a lot of pressure. You go to parties, or you’re with kids. I hear from my kids about the things that they’ve seen or heard that go on in the schools, whether it’s the middle schools or the high schools, whether it’s the vaping or drugs or kids showing up to school drunk. It’s terrible.
You hear parents. We get together with other parents, and we have these discussions about where your kids are going to go to high school next year, and parents will swear that I’m not going to send my kid to this school, because they have a drug and alcohol problem. I shake my head, and I go-
Steve: Everywhere has them.
Bruce: Every school has a drug and alcohol problem.
Steve: Yeah.
Bruce: If you’re deciding where to send your child to high school in Marin County, based on who has less of a drug or alcohol problem, you’re killing yourself, because they all have it. They all have it.
Steve: Yeah, I mean, I tell my kids that … I heard this somewhere. I think it’s … I don’t know if it’s true, but, that if you try heroin once, you have a 25% chance of getting hooked on it. Jeg ved ikke. Maybe that’s-
Bruce: Yeah, I don’t know about that, actually, but I mean that’s … You think of heroin, when we grew up, when you thought of somebody who used heroin, you thought of a homeless person on the streets, who you saw half asleep with a needle in their arm. Heroin addicts now look just like you and I, dress just like you and I, live in the same houses like you and I. It’s amazing how mainstream that addiction has become.
Steve: That’s interesting. That’s pretty scary. I mean, I’ve seen the videos in San Francisco and also just walking around San Francisco now, you’ll be downtown, and there are drug addicts, junkies, sitting on the sidewalk against buildings, lots of them per block, with the needles in their arm. There was a video about some guy walking through the BART tunnels, and the hallway was lined with these folks. I think to myself, where did they all come from? They came from all walks of life, but they end up there. I’m sure what you’re saying is on the way. There’s a bunch of people that are highly functioning addicts in communities out there that haven’t hit that stage of it. Maybe they won’t.
Bruce: Maybe they won’t, but at some point maybe they will, right?
Steve: Right.
Bruce: They just didn’t go from living in a community, and having the things that we have, to being homeless. This was a long road to misery. Whether it’s drug addiction or mental illness or a combination of the two, we do a terrible job in this country of dealing with it.
Now, my whole career … People will ask me a lot about addiction. I’m not an addiction specialist. That’s not my training. I was on the hard side of this. I was on the law enforcement side of this. I spent 28 years putting bad people in jail, not so much users of drugs, but those who sold it and made it, those who have no morals about what they’re peddling to these poor people. It’s all greed. There’s no conscience with these people.
Steve: Right, it’s just a business.
Bruce: Now that I’m retired, the things I want to do, the things I want to be engaged in, like working with the County of Marin, working with the City of Mill Valley, and coaching football … I spent 28 years putting people in jail, bad people in jail. They didn’t start out bad, right? Environmental factors made them bad, so when I get an opportunity to work with young people in a positive environment, if that somehow leads them to not go down a path and become a bad person, that’s awesome.
Steve: Make bad choices.
Bruce: That’s what I want. That’s all I want now.
Steve: Right, that’s awesome. Start on the more hopeful side of this. Since you’re in this, what should parents and people be looking out for? How do people fall into this? You hear about gateway drugs and this and that, but-
Bruce: Kids who use, try drugs, use them, whether it’s the peer pressure or just out of curiosity … I mean, they’re kids. Their brains aren’t fully developed. It doesn’t make them a bad kid. It just means they’re a kid, right? They’re a teen. Teens do risky things that we wouldn’t do, because they don’t have their brain in place to fully see through all the repercussions of their actions. That’s what makes them kids. That’s what makes them do stupid things sometimes, but they’re not stupid. They just … They’re just not thinking, right?
For parents, I would say, be involved in your kids’ lives. Talk to them. Remember, you’re not their friend. You’re their parent, all right? It’s your job to protect them. If protecting them means if you have concerns that they may be using drugs, when they go to school, searching their room, search their room! That’s your job, as a parent, to protect them. If you don’t know where your kids are at night, because they’re not comfortable telling you, that’s not good.
I mean, I tell my kids. I say, “Hey, you guys can go and do the things you want.” I mean, my middle child, my 17-year-old’s driving now, and it’s the … I have the same policy with him as I did with my daughter, who’s now going to be 21 next week. I said, “Baby, if you’re somewhere that you don’t feel comfortable or you don’t feel like you can drive home, you call me. I don’t care what time of the day or night it is. It’ll be no questions asked. I will come and pick you up and get you home safe, and I won’t ask you a question about it, if you don’t want to tell me.”
They’ve got to know that they have that support. Coaching football with my sons, at some point I realized that they’re teens now. They may not always want me there, involved in every aspect of their lives. I get it. It’s time for me to give them their space, but I want to know them. I spent so many years missing birthdays and being out of town, or being in town, but not even being home for four or five days, because we’re on this extended surveillance or we followed somebody to another city or whatever, and I missed a lot. I’m tired of missing a lot. I’m tired of missing a lot. I still have two of them in the house, but you’ve just got to know your kids. Take the time.
If there are social events, where you’re meeting the parents of their friends, it helps, because you just want to be involved in their lives. You don’t have to be over their shoulder and be that helicopter parent that we all hear about, but if you’re involved in their lives, then you’ll know if things are going awry, if they’re acting differently, if their grades are suddenly changing for the worse, the way they’re taking care of themselves, you’ll know. If you’re not, you won’t see the signs.
Steve: Well, I appreciate the first hand summary. I mean, as a parent myself, I definitely think about these things and try to help my kids make good decisions, but yeah, they are their own people. I think kids these days … The world has changed so much since you or I were in middle school or high school. Essentially, they can see everything. They can learn everything. Their friends can learn everything. The stuff, even in movies and media, it’s surprising to me what is made fun of, but yeah, you have to try to help them make a decision, because they still want to take risks, but the risks they can take can end up blowing themselves up.
There’s also just … I have a much higher level of anxiety and worry with these kids, because I think they’re exposed to so much stuff, and then they can experiment with drugs to try and self-medicate, and then all bets are off, because they can go down a bad path quickly.
Bruce: It’s not like going to the back alleys or the bad area of the city to buy these things. I mean, you can order it on the Internet, have it delivered to your house. You can … Well, what we see with a lot of the young teens is they’re obtaining their prescription medications from their own parents’ medicine cabinet, so they’re taking prescription medication that’s not prescribed to them, but they’re not buying it. They don’t have to go anywhere to get it.
I mean, I’ve had a number of operations, whether it’s sports or work related, and other people who have had these things, you get prescribed these really high strength, opioid based pain medications, and you take a couple, and the other 27 of 30 are sitting in your medicine cabinet. For parents, when was the last time you counted those pills in your medicine cabinet? Are they still all there? Are the pills that are actually in the bottle really the pills that were supposed to be in that bottle, not just some Tic Tacs or some baby as soon as?
Steve: It’s like-
Bruce: Not only are they taking it from their own parents’ medicine cabinet. They’re raiding their friends’ parents’ medicine cabinet, or grandma and grandpa’s, because we all know how much medications our seniors are getting prescribed.
Steve: All right, well this is super helpful. I think we could have a whole podcast on parenting and drug use and everything else. Okay, so any other … I guess, I had one last kind of random question, which is would you encourage your own kids to go into law enforcement after this experience you’ve had?
Bruce: It really was an amazing career, the places I got to travel, the people I got to meet, politicians, presidents of different countries, presidents of our country, and traveling around the world and seeing some amazing things. I mean, I’ve been to places around the world that I never ever want to go back to again or would never take my family on vacation, but having those experiences is something I wouldn’t trade for anything. This is not a career, where you can develop an app or be a CEO and make millions of dollars a year, right? That’s part of the … At least, that’s the trade-off for having a pension, having healthcare, is I chose a profession where I knew that I was never going to make more than this much money, and I would have to live within my means, because there was never going to be that-
Steve: Big payoff.
Bruce: Potential for, yeah, that huge payoff, where I had to invent something or create this or lead this new company or whatever. I’d like to think that when I left, I made the world a better place.
Steve: Well, you can still do it now. I mean, the largest number of companies are actually started by people over 50 these days, so you’re a relatively young person, got a lot of energy. You have a high degree of financial independence. If you wanted to, you could go create … You’re here in Silicon Valley. You’re close to it. You know, you could do it.
Bruce: I could. I know people in my profession, who have left and gone out and started businesses. Again, I missed a lot. I’m married to my high school sweetheart. We’ve been together for 35 years and married for 27. I like the flexibility of my time to spend more time with my beautiful wife and my kids. We’re doing just okay, living here in one of the most expensive cities of the world, so I like where I’m at.
Steve: Sure, well, I think being thoughtful about your life and those trade-offs, and yeah, you’ve got a fair degree of financial autonomy. You’ve got great community, time with your family, control over your time, and you can … You’re being purposeful. That is essentially the recipe for being happy, because you can go out — we’ve talked about this on some of the podcasts — and kill yourself for 30 years doing this or that, or trying to make five, 10 million, 20 million bucks, and sometimes it succeeds. Many times it doesn’t.
At the end of the day, if you look back and you’re like, “Well, what are those trade-offs?” because there are always costs to everything. Nothing is free. It’s great that you’re being thoughtful about it.
One last thing, on the international stuff, you mentioned best and worst place, or places you would go and places you wouldn’t. What are the places you would go? Well, what do those two buckets look like?
Bruce: I spent a little time in Asia. I was in the Philippines and in Thailand, gorgeous. I would like to explore Vietnam. I would like to spend more time in, say, Japan. I mean, I’ve been so many places, but there’s still so many other places that I’d like to see. I loved my time in South America. The biodiversity in Ecuador, in the rainforest, the Galapagos Islands. The biodiversity of flora and fauna that you can’t see anywhere else in the world is incredible. Just to go through some of those areas and see it, and be there at sunrise, or navigate down a river, and there’s large animals just right along the riverbed. It’s just travel in general, and making that time to enjoy it more than from traveling down that river and looking for the boat with three kilos of coke that’s supposed to be coming the other way at three o’clock in the morning, it’d be better.
Steve: Yeah, sure, more relaxing. What about places you would not go back to?
Bruce: Well, it’s the same thing. I spent some time along the Ecuador-Colombian border. The governments of Ecuador and Colombia have very little control in some of these far-reaching areas of their territory. It’s extremely dangerous. I could say that for parts of Mexico, as well. That’s true for the northern border of Thailand, with Myanmar.
There are places … If you’re in any major city in the United States, there’s just some places you try not to go to at night, right? They’re not safe. That’s the same for any country in the world. A lot of people have caused a lot of death and destruction to bring drugs to the United States. I think people lose sight of everything that’s involved in that little hit of coke or that joint they smoke or whatever. They lose sight of the big picture of the violence and the misery that’s involved in that line of work, in bringing that small tenth of a gram of whatever substance.
Steve: They’re funding a whole ecosystem that-
Bruce: Exactly, exactly.
Steve: Yeah, it runs over people and human trafficking and all kinds of stuff.
Bruce: A lot of it’s interconnected, drugs and terrorism are connected. Human trafficking and drug smuggling are connected. These are organizations that are just out to make money, and whether it’s trafficking people or trafficking drugs or promoting terrorism, they could care less.
Steve: When you were overseas, did you interact with a lot of expats, like live with, and did you see older folks? One of the things with our community is people are retiring overseas, in South America. You can go to Mexico. You can go to whatever various places.
Bruce: Ret. Places that have been historically famous for U.S. retirees, in parts of Mexico, Costa Rica, Ecuador, very much so, and we met a number of them. Having my parents, luckily, still with me, my in-laws still with us, and a big extended family, while it’d be wonderful, say, to live in Ecuador … I speak the language. I know a lot of people, but still, you’re far from home.
I was in Ecuador, and my father got real sick, and getting home is not a quick thing, even if you could get a flight out that same day and during the height of the tourist season, good luck with that, you still … Getting from Quito, Ecuador, to Phoenix, Arizona, was at minimum a 24-hour event, between connections and layovers and getting a flight. That was a big wakeup call to me that-
Steve: Do you think you-
Bruce: I’m getting on an airplane, not knowing if my dad’s going to be alive when I get off at the connection.
Steve: Yeah, right.
Bruce: That’s a big thing for me-
Steve: Sure.
Bruce: Is being closer to family.
Steve: Would you … Okay, so you personally probably wouldn’t spend more of your retirement overseas, just because of the distance and logistic, or maybe certain places.
Bruce: Yeah, at this age, not on a full-time basis, no.
Steve: No?
Bruce: Not on a full-time basis.
Steve: Okay, do you feel like the expats, that are in some of these countries that might be more risky, are fully aware of the risks and know and are “street smart” about where to be?
Bruce: I’ve talked to a few of them, and, at the beginning, there were things that they didn’t quite think through, health care, access to health care. While things are very inexpensive, that was a number of the issues some people raised to me. Not so much issues, but things they didn’t quite think through at the beginning, was access to good health care, as they got older, living in another country. The language barrier didn’t seem to be a big issue. They enjoyed the fact that their Social Security checks or their limited pensions went so far, that their standard of living was higher than it would have been in the United States, and that’s what a lot of them were looking for.
Steve: Yep, wow. All right, well, I think we’ve covered a lot of stuff.
Bruce: We have.
Steve: Any questions for me, or anything like that?
Bruce: No, I would just say, for people who are retiring at a young age, like myself, being retired from your career doesn’t mean you’re retired from everything. I, fortunately, still have kids in the house, so I have a regimented schedule around them, getting up, make sure they get to school, and getting the breakfast, and things like that. You want to stay active. You want to have a schedule, and it can be, “We’re going kayaking at nine o’clock,” or, “We’re going to hike Mount Tam at 10:30 today.” Whatever it is, have a schedule. As you ease into not getting up and going to work every morning, have something that keeps you on track.
Steve: Is your wife still working?
Bruce: She is.
Steve: Oh, okay, how does that go? Well, so you have a much more flexible schedule than she has.
Bruce: Yeah, my wife works from home, and so she has a very flexible schedule, as well. I mean, my wife had … This is her third career, because with all the times that I was moved, this is the seventh house that I’ve lived in since we were married, she’s actually had to give up her first two careers for me, so my wife is a saint for that. Just having that flexibility that she has now to take her job wherever we go is something she had to learn to adapt to, based on my career. Her first career, she was actually making more money a year than I was. Then we got up and moved, so that was a huge difference.
Steve: Well, that’s cool that you’re making it work. All right, thanks, Bruce, for being on our show. Thanks, Davorin Robison, for being our sound engineer. Anyone listening, thanks for listening. Hopefully you found this useful. Our goal at NewRetirement is to help anyone plan and manage their retirement, so that they can make the most of their money and time. We offer a powerful retirement planning tool and educational content that you can access at newretirement.com, and we’ve been recognized as Best of the Web by groups like the American Association of Individual Investors.